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          © Interview conducted by  REVOLT - "Rolling Thunder Writer".  8 / 23 / 07

 9.)  YOU WERE BOMBING ONE OF THE HOTTEST SUBWAY LINES IN NEW YORK CITY, THE # 7’LINE. YOU ARE REMEMBERED KILLING THAT LINE WITH FUZZ-1 AND HUGHIE-167. CAN YOU TELL US SOME OF YOUR EXPERIENCES WRITING ON THE 7 LINE, AND DID YOU WRITE WITH ANY LOCAL 7 LINE WRITERS?

 I had originally attempted to hit the #7’s in ’78 with HUGHIE, and TREAD but got chased away before we could even enter the yard. This happened twice. I basically decided that the 7’s were just too

   the glory days of writers like  ROGER, CHINO 174, CAINE-1, TAGE, PRO & SON, TRACY-168, and IZ, and others on the #7’s. The#7-yard was just one crazy fucking yard. It was definitely one of the craziest places to bomb. After bombing you get this feeling like “yeah I got over… barely!”

10.)  OTHER THAN RTW,  COULD YOU NAME  OTHER WRITING GROUPS YOU ARE A MEMBER OF?

 When I began writing SAGE in 1974 I was a member of the SOUL ARTISTS (SA.), and The Underground (UND.), my first two clubs. In time I was also a member of the following: Only The Best / Out To Bomb (OTB.), The Vamp Squad (TVS.), The Nasty Boys (TNB.) Roc On City ( ROC ),  Bad

 Yard Boys ( BYB.), The Super Squad ( TSS. ), and many others. As a president  I would get put down in clubs by other presidents, and vice-versa, this was a very common thing back then.

 11.)  WOULD YOU HAVE ANY “RAID” STORIES YOU CAN TELL US ABOUT? SHARE WITH US AS MANY AS YOU WOULD LIKE?

Oh yeah, the juicy stuff. Yeah I can definitely share some of these stories. I’d say the worst raid I got away from was at the E and F Yard in late ’79. One night QUIK, and DEMO, and I’m not sure but at least two other writers were there, maybe SE-3, PADE, and/or REGAL-192. We had only begun to bomb (maybe15 min.) when out of the steelwork came an army of cops and track-bums, probably like 30 of them! The E/F Yard was definitely QUIK and DEMO’s home away from home and they knew

 just how to get out of this particular raid. As this army came closer coming down several lanes, QUIK, and DEMO motioned to me and to the others to follow them. They climbed up on top of the train with all of us following closely. We jumped lane to lane with DEMO leading the way, after maybe 6-7 lanes we began running down the train cars in the opposite direction of the army. We made it outside into the park and hid in some bushes, we just sat there and watched the entire raid. It was definitely worse than we even had thought, they had turned the lights on and had unmarked cars going around the yard and shit. Another raid which was fucked up was at the Pitkin Ave. A yard in ’79 as well. REVOLT, and I were bombing with JOE-61, DANNY-13, CHOLO-ROCK, PIMP and many of The Glenmore Crew

 (The G-CREW). We were all partying hard and there were so many of us that we were spread out a bit in the yard. We had all been drinking 40’s, and smoking some big cheeba. At some point REVOLT and I were in a lane with PIMP painting an old CC train when an old track worker came through two cars and actually warned us that the Transit Police were now gathering at the front gate, he said: “They letting a car in the gate now”. We followed PIMP after scouting out that a raid was going down. we could see cops running up on us from around one of the lanes. We followed him as we all made a hasty escape over a wall no one ever went over. Only four of us made it out PIMP, REVOLT, Myself and one other G-Crew member. It was fucked up cause it happened so fast it ended up like every man for himself. JOE-61 came over to my crib a week later and gave me all the details, people being beat-up with sticks and walkie-talkies. JOE-61 asks me: ”Yo! man, did you guys set us up?” Now that was funny, we both ended up laughing at that one. JOE 61 and G-CREW fellows use to all hang out at my house. In fact writers from all boroughs use to hang out at my crib.

 12.) THE INSIDES OF THE SUBWAYS ARE VERY OVERLOOKED IN HISTORY. THERE WERE WRITERS THAT HAD NICE HAND WRITING STYLE AND SOME WOULD HIT NICE SPOTS INSIDE THE SUBWAY CARS. STAY-HIGH 149, LSD-OM, ZEPHYR, AND OTHERS ARE SOME GOOD EXAMPLES. CAN YOU TELL US SOME OF THE WRITERS THAT IMPRESSED YOU WITH THEIR TAGGING ON THE INSIDES, AND CAN YOU TELL US SOME OF YOUR EXPERIENCES WRITING ON THE INSIDES?

A very good question... The insides were definitely most writers humble origins. Tagging the insides was like an addiction, and it would usually end up becoming anything but humble. STAY-HIGH 149, LSD-OM, AZTEC, REBEL, MALTA, FUTURA 2000, SHADOW, TEAM - (GO-CLUB), ZEPHYR,

 RASTA, REVOLT,  and STRIKE were some of my personal favorite taggers. There were definitely prime spots in the insides where you’d want to hit, you’d avoid spots where a passengers head might rub away at your tag. Above the map was always one of my favorite spots, or the tops of the doors.

 Inside bombing was an absolute necessity to getting up. I recall MIN-1 used to take a pilot and stab at the tip to make it fat, then he’d mix store-marking ink with Flo-Master black to create this nasty drippy purple/black color. That shit was the bomb!!! There were some nights where we would literally hit dozens, and dozens of cars, usually the entire lay-up. It was like “Have keys, will bomb!” As far as

 good tagging styles go you have to love the old, simpler tags as well, eg. SNAKE-1, STAR-3, FDT-56, CHI CHI-133, RAT, VINNY (he’d piece just like his tags) and, how about CLYDE with his script style. In the earlier days (’74-’76) we would use various implements for inside tagging, uni’s, mini’s, pilots (my fave), flo-pens, and we used to even make our own uni’s out of school erasers.

13.) CAN YOU TELL US ALL THE WRITERS YOU HAVE PAINTED WITH AND/OR BOMBED WITH?, BEGIN WITH ALL THE RTW ( ROLLING THUNDER WRITERS ) MEMBERS.

 I  was honored to have bombed with some of the best graffiti writers of my day, and to have met or hung with, and partied with even more. Bombing with my RTW. brothers was always the best,  

 REVOLT, QUIK, ZEPHYR, MIN-1, RASTA, REGAL-192, PADE, MACKIE, STRIKE, TREAD-1, SIE-1, CRUNCH, SE-3 / HAZE, WAR-1, EARTH, HUNT, etc, ect… I got to go writing with legends like; NIC-707, TRACY-168, KEL1st, SHY-147(RIP.), COS-207,  FUZZ-1, and my brother

 T-KID-170 ,we were pretty tight at one time. I knew T-KID’s parents as well as his cool brother Butchy. We used to all hang tight, sometimes we’d stay at T-KID’s mothers house in Kingsbridge and slip out at 2 or 3 AM to go bombing. I think it was well known that The Vamp Squad (TVS.) was really

  a hybrid of three clubs, TNB., RTW., and TD.(RIN-1), we all used to do some mad crazy hanging out; T-KID, SHOCK-123, SHY 147, RIN-1, BOOZER, MIN, WAR-1, PADE, REGAL-192, and we definitely used to get into some crazy trouble. We were a tight click in those days. I partied, and/or at

  least hung out with, or knew many top writers, eg. LEE, CRASH, SEEN, OE-3, P-13, SIKO, KIK, FDT-56, KID-56, MOUSEY-56, MITCH-77, SMILEY-149 (RIP.), DONDI (RIP.), TRACY-168, NIC, BILLY-167, IZ THEWIZ, CHOLO ROCK, QUIK, RICH 2, SACH, DEMO TPA, JOE 61, KB, SN (

 SICK NICK.) , RCA 1, ROB-78, KN., KR., going back to my early days; CLIFF-159, BE-3, LSD-OM, MALTA, DEAN, KIN-161, SAL-161, IN/KILL3, JERRY-1, MOSES-147, BOMB-1, REPEL-1, ROD-1,  SHADOW, BAMA, KASE, DEAL (aka.MIKE-707) , ALI, FUTURA-2000, MALTA, STEVE-161, COCA-82, STAR-3. I’m certain to have left out many writers but they all know who they are.

 14.)  MANY WRITERS LOOK DOWN ON THROW-UPS, BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF WRITERS THAT DID VERY UNIQUE, CRISP THROW-UPS, WHICH ONES IMPRESSED YOU?. RTW. WAS WELL KNOWN FOR DOING SOME OF THE BEST THROW-UPS ALWAYS BIG, AND ON EVERY LINE, SUCH AS QK, MIN, SACH, RH, ETC. TELL US SOME OF YOUR EXPERIENCES DOING THROW-UPS?

 I can definitely understand how some old writers (’72-’74) looked down on the emergence of the throw-up in 1974. This was when IN, IZ, TEE, and DY 167(JESTER) were tearing shit up. It was the beginning of the two, and three letter names. You see in 1974 that style/burners were just coming into

 development with PHASE-2, CLIFF-159, TRACY-168, PISTOL-1 and ROGER and others. All of a sudden writers like IN began whompin’ shit, this was the origin of the “throw-up”. I can understand why the old school looked down on them, just when PHASE-2’s bubble (BRONX) style, and styles like

 the “Texas” letters were developed. The two, and three letter names came about due to a crackdown on graffiti, you could write them faster, do more, and get away. The throw-up stands on its own as a

 successful method of prolific bombing! By 1977 style was back in a big way with REPEL, BUTCH, KASE, NOC-167, DONDI, PART, SLAVE, and so many others. We never looked down on throw-ups, we always considered them an integral part of getting up, although we definitely were more into

 burners. When I went all-city I concentrated on doing more throw-ups as did everyone who would go all-city. I had a third name; CLIME-2 that I only used when I did throw-ups. Many writers had alternate throw-up names. So I didn’t look down on the throw-up phenomenon but I could never

understand writers who would only do throw-ups. I feel they are missing out on what I considered the heart of graffiti, the “windows down burner”. We would almost always do a bunch of throw-ups before and after executing a burner or a Tee-to-Bee. RTW. at the time was well known for doing mad bombing

 campaigns of throw-ups on many subway lines (if not all of them). MIN-1 when he became Rolling Thunder’s second president, in 1982, definitely took the throw-up campaign to the next level. MIN, QUIK, IZ, SACH, RICH, BOE, SAGO, PADE, just tore shit up. My personal favorite throw-ups were done by writers like: DY 167, TI 149, TEE, KB, NE (MIN-1), in a bubble style. SE-3 (HAZE) had a sweet throw-up. QUIK was awesome too with the bugged-out shit he did.

 14.)  DID YOU EVER HAVE ANY WRITING WARS WITH OTHER WRITERS, AND DID YOU EVER RACE ANOTHER WRITER FOR A SUBWAY LINE?

 Wars between the clubs/gangs was a very regular occurrence, and if a writer had a “beef” with another writer then the whole club did too. I always felt strongly about this and had borrowed one of the basic by-laws of The Hells Angels motorcycle club, which stated that you always back another club member up whether they were wrong or right. RTW. had its share of adversaries like TMT.(’77-’79), TMOB.(’78), and MPC. I didn’t care for white boys like MPC. We thought they were a bunch of Howard Beach types. I had never known white boys like that before. RTW was from a racially mixed

 neighborhood, we didn’t get with that racist type shit. RTW. didn’t need to go to war very often since we were aligned with several crews which made us an unstoppable force and the punk-ass bitch writers (you all know who you are!) feared taking on such an alliance. This is a subject that I would definitely rather save for a book since I have many stories. I’ll tell you a bit though, when RTW. first showed up at the #1-tunnel TMT. Attempted to set upon us. Mostly however it was just words, which would come down from them second hand. Writers would tell us: “Yo! TMT. Crew’s got it out for you,

  they say they’re gonna’ come down and throw all you white boys out of the tunnel”. Now I certainly can understand them being upset at us like we were invaders in their territory, but I was adamant that no one was going to yoke us, especially because we were mostly a white crew at the time. I also had a lot of respect for TMT Writers like TEAN, TEEN, KADE and FED-2 did some super-fly ass work. One day I’m in the tunnel bombing with REVOLT when FED-2, and NUT rolled on up to

 us. I spoke some words with FED-2, and we just ended up squashing the bullshit and partied a big cheeba stick. The only other problems I ever had with any of TMT. was with  ADROCK (RIP.) and his crew of TMT “wanna-be’s”. It was nothing really. TMT. were definitely writers most worthy of respect. Now, I never understood T.MOB’s problem with us, AMMO used to go over a lot of us and that was it as far as I can recall. It was strange, he’s lucky he didn’t ever go over my shit at the time. T.MOB. must’a been just jealous of the RTW crew, the new kids on the block. It should be understood that all the above was a long time ago, and one should always respect ones adversaries.

 15.)  YOU USED TO HIT THE TRAINS WITH A LOT OF BMT WRITERS SUCH AS KB, KN, SN, SIKO, AND KIK, AS WELL AS OTHERS. I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU TOOK THESE WRITERS TO THE IRT’S, CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT EXPERIENCE AND WHERE WAS THAT WHERE YOU’D ALL GO BOMBING?

 Yeah!, those guys were definitely my boys. I had met SN, and I believe ROB-78 first. In 1978 when I started killing the RR, those guys, the Super Squad (TSS.) were all like wondering, “who the fuck are these RTW. dudes?” bombing their line. One day TREAD-1 and I were heading out to his crib in

 Astoria from Manhattan and we were sitting in a train that was “killed” with RTW. tags (myself, TREAD-1, HUGHIE-167, HUNT-167). We were checking out our tags and gloating when I noticed these two guys across the car checking us out and whispering. SN came up to me and asked me if I wrote graffiti. It was kinda’ funny and we ended up getting off at the next stop and walked off the platform and into the daytime RR lay-up and began bombing shit. SN. Then introduced me to KB., KN, RCA and KR 1. Those guys were totally cool and we became tight after that. TSS. had a regular hang-out which was over in the Hoyt Ave. Park in Astoria. It was the Queens writers bench. Writers like FUZZ-1, and other #7 line, or E/F, GG writers used to come around. I met SIKO, and KIK there as well who ended up taking me to the M-yard over on Freshponds Rd. SIKO was a true brother, I loved that

 and I became regulars at the M-yard by the winter of ’79-’80, we hung with SIKO, and KIK quite a bit in those days. I also would invite The Boys (TB.) to come bombing on the #1’s, and the AA’s, B’s, and the CC’s. I also turned TSS., and TB. onto the City Hall RR spot. KB and his boys loved that shit, now they had a place to easily do tee-to-bee’s on their beloved RR train.

 16.)  WHAT WERE SOME OF YOUR FAVORITE PIECES THAT YOU HAVE DONE?

 I would have to say that one of my favorites was “The Tao of Graffiti” car I did with REGAL-192 at the Ghost-yard. There were some, which I had never gotten any photos of, which is a sad bitch. One was a tee-to-bee I did on an AA train which was a BILROCK-161 Vietnam War memorial car. I think I

 had just seen Apocalypse Now! I recall it ended up being switched to the RR cause KB., and RCA told me they had seen it. Another car I remember was done at City Hall (RR), it was a ½ car tee-to-bee that I had dedicated to the Transit Police Detectives, Rodon, and Wasserman who were hot after me and the rest of RTW. for the damage we were causing on the Queens lines. One of my other fave’s was the classic; BIL/REVOLT: ”She came from planet Claire” car on the M line. Another car I recall was on the #7 train. It was a whole car tee-to-bee I did with HUGHIE-167, it was simple block letters, aluminum fill with black outline. We dedicated it to a brother of ours from the old Hawthorne Reform School who had recently died of HIV.

 18.)  WHAT WRITERS DO YOU FEEL ARE VERY OVERLOOKED IN GRAFFITI’S HISTORY ?

 There are many whom are not mentioned enough, off the top of my head are: IN, JESTER ( DY 167 ), HURST ( OI ), MOVIN 2 ( TI 149 ), ROGER, SON & PRO, SHADOW and BOMB-1, PEACE-108, TAKI-149, PART TDS, MAFIA 1, MITCH 77, DEAL (aka. MIKE-707) and ROD-1 was all over the

 Broadway lines. All the Brooklyn writers. There were so many you can’t do them all justice but I’ll mention a few: REPEL is definitely not spoken of enough, my man was a serious style innovator. Back on Broadway, MOSES-147 made some down-right “Frankenstein-ish” looking  pieces, but he bombed and had spirit. The GO-CLUB is never mentioned enough with great writers like, TEAM, FUSE, MAX and AZTEC. There are too many writers to really mention here.

 19.)  TELL US ALL THE YARDS/LAY-UPS YOU HAVE HIT, AND WHICH WERE YOUR FAVORITE SPOTS?

 I think I mentioned all the places I had hit earlier, but as I said, I loved the #1-Tunnel, the “Ghost Yard”, and the AA yard (tunnel). That AA-yard/tunnel was RTW. territory for ’79-’82. For some reason I also really loved that Astoria elevated RR lay-up. The “Ghost-Yard” was the bomb!!, with all those haunted house looking trees stickin’ up between the cars. You would do a piece there and it could ended up on any line.

20.)  WHEN  DID YOU STOP WRITING AND WHY DID YOU STOP?

 I stopped writing for good in 1982-83. There are several reasons why I stopped, one is that I began getting sick of the fighting, really, instead of fighting with our hands it began to resemble the wild west. Writers began carrying guns as well as myself, it just wasn’t really any fun anymore. I was also not into the subway-to-gallery transition at the time, there were/are too many perps. involved with that scene. I was very disillusioned to see art dealers, and gallery owners allowing their world to be infiltrated by so

  many perpetrators and wanna-be’s. I expected them to have done their homework first. Graffiti was never just about the art as I said before it was a way of life which encompassed your entire body, and soul. You had to pay your dues. It never mattered if you could do a well-styled burner if you only had five or ten of them. Look at all the great style you see now coming out from all over the world but, most of them, would still be considered toys by the old NYC. graffiti standards. I am proud of my boys whom are recognized by the art world; QUIK, ZEPHYR, and REVOLT, for they are the real-thing. On another note, I’m proud of my boy MIN-1 and what he ended up doing with the crew. He stuck with the original RTW. ideals, and he took it to the next level and beyond. MIN-1, KEL1^st, PADE, and RICH 2, I love them dudes man…

 21.) Would you have any closing words?

FIRST I LIKE TO SAY A SAD GOOD BYE TO MY BELOVED MOTHER WHO PASSED AWAY A FEW DAYS BEFORE THIS INTERVIEW WAS DONE. " REST IN PEACE MOM ". In loving memory of Josephine White Engvall Harmon 1938 - 2010. TO THE GRAFFITI BROTHERS GONE

 BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN: IZ THE WIZ ( RIP ), KESS 1 / ANDY KESSLER ( RIP ), PETRO ( RIP ), DONDI (RIP.),  ALI / ALI 105 (RIP.), P13, SHY-147 (RIP.), DEAN ( RIP ), SIE-1 (RIP.), SIKO (RIP.), STEVE 161 (RIP ), SAMO (R.I.P.), SMILEY-149 (RIP.), HUGHIE-167 (RIP.), EL-3 (RIP.), KID PANAMA (RIP.) CHOLOROCK (RIP)

SHOUT OUTZ: REVOLT, QUIK, ZEPHYR, WAR 1, MIN-1, T-KID-170, FUZZ-1, NIC-707, KEL-1^ST., SE-3, RICH 2, TRIKE 1, MACKIE, SHOCK-123, RASTA, SAG 3, HUNT, RIN-1, BOOZE, BOE, SAGO, CAV,  SAR, EARTH, NOC-167, LSD-OM, TRACY-168, STAN-153, WAR-1, AX, AD, ROD-1, BE 3, REGAL-192, PADE, BAN-2, KIK 1-NSG, COS-207, KESS 1, SAURON, CRUNCH, TREAD-1, KB, SN/SICK NICK., ROB-78, KR., KN., RCA.1, OE-3, JOE61 and the whole GLENMORE CREW, SHADOW-1, DEAL/MIKE-707, MALTA, COCA-82, SEEN, MAD, LEE, MOOSE-106, BAMA, SACH, DOZE, BOMB-1, REPEL, JESTER 1, TEAM, KR-2 ME-62, CUE-3, DEMO-TPA, FDT-56, KID-56, M-56, RUST 1, WHISPER 1, TAKE 1, MARE, MARTHA COOPER, HENRY CHALFANT , All of RTW. WOW. TVS. OTB. TNB. and to the crew at Subway Outlaws ( Gil & Bom5) for allowing me to tell my story.  and all others whom I failed to mention, forgive me.

 - " ROLLING THUNDER WRITERS FOREVER!!! "

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.  NO PORTION OF THIS BIOGRAPHY MAY BE REPRODUCED, STORED IN A RETRIEVAL SYSTEM OR TRANSMITTED IN ANY FORM OR BY ANY MEANS – ELECTRONIC, MECHANICAL- PHOTO COPY, RECORDING OR ANY OTHER – EXCEPT FOR BRIEF QUOTATIONS IN PRINTED REVIEWS WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE RTW CREW  AND THE AUTHOR. 

   We would like to thank REVOLT and CAV for making this bio possible, Photo credits go to BILROCK 161, REVOLT, ZEPHYR, CAV, BOE /JULY4th, PADE,  BLADE, ROGER, DELFONICS 1, B-ONE, SAR, KR 1, RCA, KRAZY NIK, QUIK, MALTA1, T-KID 170, FUTURA 2000, IZ THE WIZ, DEMO-TPA, FARGO 1, TEAM, MIKE 79, WEO-TBI, RIST 1, FLINT... www.ExVandals.com , SES-DOG, TRIKE1, LAVA 1&2, DIME 139, ERIC & SPAR  www.at149st.com KADE 198, FUZZ ONE, HENRY CHALFANT & MARTHA COOPER, and the team at Subwayoutlaws.com.  Looks for Bio's of other RTW  members, in the near future.

 Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited. Copyright © Subway outlaws.com 2010. Should any one have photos of BILROCK's work or have any Questions Please contact us at MESSAGE@SUBWAYOUTLAWS.COM